Live Q&A With Clark and Division Author Naomi Hirahara
Clark and Division author Naomi Hirahara spoke with readers and runners on Saturday, April 15, 2023, after a 4-mile guided run through Chicago’s Near North Side. Learn more about Hirahara and the novel in this interview and learn more about Japanese-American history in Chicago via these resources.
Want to learn more Chicago history?
Transcript
[ 00:00:00 ]Somewhere, okay cool. Okay, so I don't know, we can always move around and see what works best for like location. And what we've done in the past too is like if someone's asking a question, we'll just do this. Okay, cool. And then at the end, before we say goodbye, I want us to all crowd around the computer so we can get a photo with you. Yeah. Okay, awesome. What's the weather like right now in Chicago? The book. Oh, really? Oh, okay. Summertime. Yeah, we're moving into that, huh? Yeah, yeah. Chelsea, do you want to go in? Okay. Oh, sorry. Where are you located? I'm in Pasadena, California. I don't know if you've ever been there. It's beautiful today. It's gorgeous. I think we're going to hit maybe low 70s.
[ 00:00:56 ]Yeah, but we've had a lot of rain; you know, Southern California has been dull, but the great thing is it's like green, which is like what a concept for us. Yeah, it's been really interesting for me, because now, you know, after writing Clark and Division, I have like Chicago on my brain. And there's so many weird ties to like LA and Chicago. It's so fascinating. Even just like history-wise, I guess a lot of folks came out to Pasadena, you know, to build their like winter house. And yeah, and I've been; I have to do a deep dive. on the 1890s, it's either 92 or 93, you know, your famous Oh, the world's fair, the world's fair, yeah, and apparently there was like this Japanese village that was built at that world's fair and it got moved, it got moved to one of your um, it still exists in Chicago, probably Jacksonburg.
[ 00:02:18 ]There's a Jacksonburg in there. Oh my gosh, I never made that connection. And then apparently like Frank Lloyd Wright, you know, he had seen that, and he was really influenced by that particular house. And here in Pasadena, there's this huge like arts and crafts movement in terms of the architecture, and it was started by two brothers named Green, the Green brothers. And they went to Chicago. They're from Boston, but they went to the there in Chicago and saw the house. And they never went to Japan. But it's really apparent that that Japanese aesthetic is in all of their work. So it's like, oh, it goes back to Chicago. It's like, I'm going to have to go and see that house. I'm excited. Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Okay, well, let's do some introductions. Some other folks join us, and um, Emily, I want to make sure that you get to say hi to Naomi, so at some point, you'll have to like yeah, yeah. So, Naomi, you saw Allison, and I, you got to see um the folks that have joined us, and um, someone that walked in just a little bit ago is Emily Ackler.
[ 00:03:40 ]Yeah, she wrote her book. And Emily is, for those of you that don't know her, and I think that would be most of you, she's a good friend of mine. And I met her through the book club that she runs. And Emily is the CEO and co-founder of Italotype, which is this platform for readers that I may have mentioned on other ones before casually. Uh, and it's amazing, I love it, I've been using it a couple years now, but like, full-blood user at the last, like since last um, last winter or yeah, beginning of last year, and um, now I, I, I do have the email printed out where you said I'm finally doing that, it's changing my life, and I'm not even saying that, that's hyperbole, that's like so yeah.
[ 00:04:34 ]I sent Emily this email. I was like, I love what you're doing, please tell me how I can help and be involved. And she's like, join me at the book club, program manager. I was like, yeah, hi, yes, that sounds great. I want that to be my title. And so, yeah, in the book club that Emily and I are in, we read 'Park' and 'Division'. Someone selected it. And like, I told those of you that were on the run, and I needed it last year, so she knows the route. There's a memory in the book. So, you know, we read it and like, I was just getting to know Allison. She was just launching like anyone could start leading runs. And I was like, I want my first one to be Clark and Division.
[ 00:05:12 ]This is so awesome. I emailed Naomi. She was amazing. She has answered all of my questions. She connected us with Mary Doy last year, a historian, brought on Mary Doy, also connected us, but mainly, I think you know them too, but Jean, who's last name I'm forgetting, and Ross Hirano. Ross was actually born, I don't think he's joined us, we gave him the link, but Ross was born in one of the internment camps. And like, didn't understand he said it didn't hit him until he was 18, but like that's what he he would see the pictures of like those shacks that they were put in and like he didn't he just thought they were really poor he didn't understand that like no I was born in an internment camp and his family, obviously they settled they were allowed to come to Chicago and um and then they settled and he says something like uh
[ 00:06:06 ]like I wrote notes after we met with them but like you know why wouldn't we go back somewhere that they like back to LA where they have like forcibly moved us and didn't want us so so they stayed um but yeah I want to give Emily a chance to say a few words real quick like one um Naomi it's like awesome to to see you virtually And it's so cool that you're joining for this One of the things that I love about books, right, is that it gives you so much more insight and ability to like connect things that are going on in your life or places where you live that you may not have realized before. Like growing up, my dad used to take me for Japanese food all the time in Arlington Heights.
[ 00:06:43 ]That was like a big deal. And I didn't realize like the connection between the, you know, Japanese American community in Chicago and that connection until I read the book a couple of years ago. So, real quick, like italic type, if you're familiar with Goodreads, it is sort of like a kind of newer, you know, modern version of that. Goodreads is okay. It's not, you know, like it's not the best thing ever. What if we could create a platform that readers love to use just as much as they love to read? And that's like the bar that we're setting for ourselves. So our mission is to help readers everywhere find more joy and meaning and connection with the books that they're reading and with their fellow readers.
[ 00:07:27 ]And we do this so that readers can continue to survive and thrive in an age of distraction. One of the things that I love so much about Read and Run, and like the work that Allison is doing that I know so much about through Chelsea, I myself am not a runner. So thanks for letting me join you, even though I didn't find it here today. What is so cool about what Reading Run is doing, too, is it's, like, different ways of engaging with and experiencing books. It's not, you know, when you read a book, it's an investment of your time and attention, right? So, like, we want to make sure that the stuff that we're learning and the stuff about the places where we live or whatever else we're doing or the people that we want to connect with who also are learning and open about, like, the same thing, same interests that we are, you know.
[ 00:08:11 ]We want to make sure that we can, like, mine all of that good stuff or, like, as much as we can get out of it. Um, you know it's so cool like to be both here in Chicago and I think there's a couple other people in Chicago like I don't know if you guys have heard of Pango Books um that's like a new platform where people are buying and selling used books it's sort of like Poshmark if you're familiar with that, like, a bunch of books. The guy who's doing Pango, he's in Chicago. Anyway, it's like in Chicago, such an interesting, like sort of like literary town, really deep history and like publishing and books. And I'm just excited to like be here and meet all of you. And obviously, Michelle is amazing.
[ 00:08:55 ]Thanks for inviting me. Yes, I will. I'm glad you pointed out. I did want to bring like my two worlds together. Guys, hear about each other and so yeah, I wanted to bring them together, so all right, well any questions or comments before we get started at the end, could you give us a italic type* demo, yes, yeah, I would love to, yeah, I have my login, okay, awesome, well, yeah, I will kick off the Q&A then with you, Naomi, um, yeah, do you have any questions or anything for us before we jump in? No, just go for it. Let me... Well, yeah, to your point, I could, I could just go for it, but do you want to say any introductory remarks to the group well, uh, Arlington Heights you brought up Arlington Heights and they had selected it as their one book, one village read last year, um, I don't know how many of you, I mean, I know with places like when we just say a place next to Chicago.
[ 00:09:58 ]We're just assuming all the Chicago people know about it. But it was really wonderful. And I didn't know that much about Arlington Heights. I just knew when I was doing research, I saw Mitsuwa. Oh, it's like the only Mitsuwa in the Midwest. That must mean something. So anyway, it was; I just wanted to mention that because that's been so rewarding for me in writing Clark and Division. I was scared as hell to write about Chicago. I am a native Los Angelino. I have lived in different places in different countries, but I've never really, before I decided to write Clark and Division, I had not spent that much time in Chicago. In fact, I had only been there once and it was for a Japanese American Citizens League convention.
[ 00:10:49 ]And I did the big, you know, I like architecture. So I went to. Oak Park and did the walking to, you know, I did all this stuff, but yeah, but it just, I'll just explain why, you know, probably a question is why write about Clark and Division? Why was it? It was in my radar. Some of you may know, I wrote, I co-wrote a nonfiction book called Life After Manzanar, and I had worked with a friend. Well, she later became a friend. Her name's Heather Lindquist, and she does a lot of projects for National Park Services. And so there's a visitor center at Manzanar. And I did some of the work on the interpretive panels there. And one thing, the the woman who ran the bookstore there, she said all the visitors would ask, what happened to the people after they left?
[ 00:11:44 ]So that was a big question. So then Heather and I, we were commissioned to write a book about it. And I knew that Chicago had been um, a bit a place that people had gone to; I had elders who had lived in Chicago, I had younger people who were born in Chicago or you know had relatives. So I knew you know that Chicago had just been a but in my mind it was just a place that people either most people temporarily went to before returning to California, but then when I worked on the book, it was like no, this was like the number one destination. And then Chicago, before World War II, had 400 Japanese Americans. And then by the mid-40s, there were 20,000.
[ 00:12:30 ]So that, I mean, it's still not a huge number, but that grew so large in a short amount of time. And then being a crime writer, what was I came across this document from the Chicago Resettlers Committee. And they were really concerned about the juvenile delinquency in Chicago, primarily babies being born out of wedlock. There had been abortions, well, illegal at the time. And then there was, since most, all of you have read the book, right? Or if you haven't read the book, you could fake, you have to fake that. So I'm going to just spoil it, but um, there had been a stick of man, um, who had been apprehended so, um, that was Manju, you know, so I, I didn't know the person's name, I was trying to find out who that was, but so Manju was kind of modeled what he gets into, which is not a central part of the book, but there had been a person who had committed that crime and had been arrested.
[ 00:13:42 ]And then it also mentioned there had been a man within the community who had in the report, they said he was a sex maniac and had assaulted like six or seven women. So when I saw that, I was shocked. I mean, the whole thing, I was shocked even about the kids being born out of wedlock, because when you look at the oral histories, people are really not talking about that. But when I. Revisited some of them, they said oh yeah there was this gang of Nisei boys and there was a little scuffle, they kind of mentioned it lightly but I think some of it was because when we choose you know over him in the past 20 years many times we chose to interview more the respectable people in the community right who were not the criminals and we don't really say whoa you spent some time in the joint let's interview you, you know placed within the Japanese American community because there was so much pressure, you know, like, why were we locked up?
[ 00:14:45 ]You know, we must have done something wrong. So I think the pressure was to present like such a clean, you know, clean image. So I don't think people felt free to really talk about who we were in all of our humanity. Because if you think about it, if you're a young Nisei released to a place like Chicago, which in LA, I always say one of the most notorious cities in America, sorry, but, you know, it just had a reputation. And, you know, you guys were number two, you were the second largest city, you know, at the time. So it's a big city. Of course, young people are going to get in trouble, right, and you know we're if you're young, you're going to look for love, you're going to look for romance, and what I also thought was interesting were all these Nisei were different were in different camps, right?
[ 00:15:38 ]They were in 10 different camps, and all of a sudden they're all together, so I thought that was super fascinating too, so that was the genesis of the story. I just felt like I couldn't really write about this story in a nonfiction way because all of the details have been lost, and there's so many secrets. But as a mystery writer, I could delve into it and investigate. So that's why it became, that's why I think, you know, a mystery novel is the best way to tell this particular story. So that's kind of the genesis of Clark and Division. Thanks, Naomi. Does anyone have more questions? Yeah, go ahead. Do you think writing about the past made it easier to write about a city you didn't live in since you were going to have to do the research in a way to reconstruct it?
[ 00:16:32 ]I mean, this is a city that sometimes has a chip on its shoulder about how it's represented. So I wonder if that helped. About the whole number two thing? Yeah. Notarized. I think being an outsider has helped me in so many different ways. I mean, I'm an outsider, actually, to the Japanese American incarceration story. I mean, you know, I'm too young to have been there. Although I do have niseis in the past to say, oh, what camp were you in? I'm going, I'm not that old. But so, that probably tells you that the Nisei, who were alive at the time, they really looked good or they had bad eyesight, I don't know; but anyway, um, because my parents, they're atomic bomb survivors; they were in Hiroshima, you know, so.
[ 00:17:18 ]But although my dad was born here, so I've explored his story in another set of mysteries, um; but I worked at a Japanese American newspaper in LA, you know, so, um, you know this is a story that I've interviewed so many people, so I think sometimes even the larger just Japanese American incarceration story because I don't have, you know, it was very divided within the community. So people can't really look at me. Well, what, in terms of our family, what side were they on? You know, it's like; I am looking this totally as an outsider. And I think with Chicago,
[ 00:18:05 ]when I went there, I did two in-depth uh research trips to Chicago and I had two guides, and you know, I've spoken about them all the time, and they're referenced in the book. One is Eric Matsunaga, who on Instagram, I think it's windy nikkei is his uh he he he posts a lot and he loves you know Chicago history; he's from Chicago, spent some time in LA, and that's when I met him. And so I think without Eric, without his help, I don't think Clark and Division really would have happened, because he was the one who gave me walking tours of Clark and Division. And he, you know, like the LaSalle Mansion, that's where, this is where I kind of modeled where the Itos lived, that's still standing, that particular building.
[ 00:19:00 ]And we went to the Mark Twain Hotel. And what was funny with Eric, because he's still Midwest nice. And I'm like L. A., you know, former reporter. So I'm like, you know, it's the SRO Hotel and you're not really supposed to just go in. But I wanted to see what it was like in that particular beauty, the beauty box that where Peggy works, that that actually was that was truly in the market. Mark Twain hotel. So I kind of wanted, so I just bought, you know, there's in front of the hotel is like someone, you know, behind a glass, you know, a receptionist. And it's like, I kind of went in, you know, and they're like, 'wait, stop.' And then Eric's like, 'kind of', he had never, he's, he's so nice that he never actually tried to get in to really see the interior.
[ 00:19:49 ]So he got to see the interior because. So I think in that way, sometimes be, you know, I am maybe in places I shouldn't be and just because and I use that I'm an outsider to kind of help that probably I felt more freedom to write about the crimes, you know like I'm sure if you're from Chicago and you kind of want to be more rich and totally understandable protective how you want to kind of show your community in the best light and maybe if you have a lot of extended family, they're like, why are you writing about this? Write about the heroes, which I think Aki and her family and actually the rest of the people, they are heroes, but just write about the really squeaky clean people, not this criminal element. So I'm sure in that sense, being an outsider, it gave me more freedom to explore those kinds of issues.
[ 00:20:56 ]I was wondering if Aki and Rose were modeled at all on real people, if you were thinking of anybody in particular. I have to admit, okay, I am like the oldest, I'm the oldest kid, you know, and I don't have a sister. And my brother is eight and a half years younger than me. And I always say this because I'm so much older. He adores me, you know, so we get along really well. But I think, I don't know about your friend, especially for the women, if you notice like. If you have a lot of friends, like if you're the oldest, if you have a lot of other friends who are older, like the oldest in the family or maybe the younger one, you know, it's kind of the birth order thing is super interesting to me.
[ 00:21:48 ]And I have a lot of friends actually who are not the oldest, who are like them, and they they talk a lot about the princess, you know, their older sister. Who could do no wrong, you know, and they're always, you know, still serving their older sister, you know, and this is people who are pretty old now in life, and I just found that, you know, and i'm trying to we're all trying to support them; I can't believe your sister did that, oh my god, and it's just hilarious, and it's they love them, but for me, um, and then I guess as a writer, you're an observer for me, to kind of watch that was really fascinating. And I really, as a writer, I wanted to push myself; so it was pushing myself to write about 1940s.
[ 00:22:35 ]I wasn’t alive to write about Chicago. You know, I never lived there. And also this dynamic of siblings, which I really didn’t experience, but I had observed in my friends. I had to tell you the truth. I had to dig a little deeper. My editor was really pressing me. And it’s hard because Rose dies. Right. So. You can't watch their relationship over time; it's only like the pre-prettily much pre-war and a little slice of the wartime era. Um, so I ended up during the pandemic, like interviewing um people I knew who were like the younger sister, and um, and just getting more story digging deeper. My friend Jane was the one who said she loved her sister; she loves her; she continues to love her sister.
[ 00:23:23 ]And she said, 'Uh, when her sister, her sister was the star, and when her sister was out of the house, she would try on her clothes and just like look you know.' And I go, 'Oh, that's a good you know scene.' Can I steal that? And she gave me permission. So that was the scene with Akiko like trying you know Rose's clothes. So um, yeah. But it is fictionalized, I mean um, I don't know if that gives it less authenticity but you know I guess as a writer that's what we're supposed to do right? We're supposed to have empathy. And I think also being an older person now, it's not only, I don't feel like I have to always tell my specific story, but just also be cognizant. And this is probably from me being a reporter as well, cognizant of the stories around me and kind of presenting that as well.
[ 00:24:20 ]I don't know. Yeah, I can lean in. So I love the book. Thank you for writing it. I'm from Southern California in the desert and I've been to Manzanar and it's crazy that I, you know, I lived so close to that, to that site and I never learned anything about it, which is horrible, but I, I'm so appreciative that I was able to visit. And so it gave me like reading the book, I had this interesting perspective on it. First of all, so I hope they carry your book in their bookstore, they should um but I was thinking about just being an author, just in general like you know, you're putting yourself out there, you're putting your art out there, you're sort of making yourself vulnerable and you know asking people to kind of just experience your, you know, your work and how, how do you deal with
[ 00:25:12 ]criticism and you know is that difficult, like do you have kind of your own tools that you use to kind of you know insulate you from any bad critiques or how do you deal with that? I try not to well I don't look at my Amazon page oh I don't read my Amazon reviews um and pretty much you know I'd been, I think, being a journalist, uh, I had to deal with a lot of criticism and I was the editor of a small, you know, ethnic newspaper, so I was threatened with lawsuits even from my reporters, even things that hadn't been written. So within the newsroom we had a lot of camaraderie because a lot of people were out for us.
[ 00:25:57 ]So I think, you know, to some degree that's why I'm close to other mystery writers or other writers, you know. I think you need to find your tribe, support each other, yeah, because only they, even my husband totally doesn't understand. But to find other people to commiserate with and you know and then one thing is Like, someone put this out on Twitter that, like, why if you do a bad review please don't tag me! But with other writers, like Walter Mosley, he's one of my idols. But he had said, everyone has a right to their opinion, which is totally, I mean, no one has to like my work. And if they actually spent the time, dedicated the time to read it, they're entitled to their opinion.
[ 00:26:49 ]I don't think I need to be defensive or fight anybody. I think when you look at, in terms of the internet criticism, like writers got it. I think we were one of the early ones because of Amazon, to be publicly criticized. And now everybody's criticized, right? Like teachers, doctors, hairdressers, and now everyone. And I think just-And so I value the experience I had being a journalist and having kind of to deal with that, to put boundaries. I think I was much more sensitive when I was starting out as a novelist. And oh, this was funny because when my first book, it's called Summer of the Big Bachi, came out, it took me 15 years before it was published. And that it came out in 2004. So it's kind of, you know, early, early days.
[ 00:27:49 ]And then we were planning this huge event, like 200 people were going to come because I had been working on this book. And it was like the day before my book was supposed to come out. And then my mother, who was just learning about the Internet, she proceeds to inform me that I had a one-star review on Amazon. And but this is how the universe was protecting me. You know, of course, I was curious. So I tried to look it up on my computer and I couldn't get that review. And so anyway, and the event was very successful. And then I think a few hours later, I looked it up and I found that review and there were many others that were more positive. And he or she had misspelled Gardner.
[ 00:28:33 ]So I was going, what's wrong with this person? But it's just like a lesson. I try not to believe the hype. The really great things, as well as because, and then I don't believe all the bad things I do read reviews like in newspapers and websites with somebody's names; you know, I feel like they because I kind of know I know who this person is, and I have some sense of their likes and dislikes so it's it's um I'm able to kind of absorb it, you know, and understand it, and put it in the right context. But I pretty much resolved, like, I'm not going to do things that will harm my ability to be creative. And I think reading a lot of criticism, especially from those who don't really understand what I'm trying to do is hurtful.
[ 00:29:30 ]So I'm not going to go there. So, you know, whereas I have other friends who read everything and they consider and they may have thicker skin. You know or whatever, and they just you know, and they kind of take they learn from those reviews so I have to give them credit, but I'm I'm not that person, and um, yeah, and and believe me, even if you don't read the reviews on the internet, you receive criticism, you know, through other people or whatever, so you know, I have a sense of things that maybe were off the mark for people, you know, or whatever. But um, now uh, writing novels for so long, I do have
[ 00:30:14 ]a certain purpose in mind and I think for me like Clark and Division it was really important for me to not make it um to try to stay to the facts as much as possible even and because there's not much written about the Japanese American Chicago experience, I think if there was a lot written I could have you know gone off you know and made the crimes even larger. But I just felt I didn't want someone to come to Clark and Division, read something and say, oh, did this really happen? And even though it's fiction, think, you know, have something weird planted in their head. I think with other topics, like you know, we're still learning things about slavery in this country, but there's a lot of materials on that.
[ 00:31:03 ]And as a result, I think there's been more fantastical kind of jumping off points about the slavery experience. And I think, you know, someday, I mean, I think that is starting to happen with the Japanese American World War II experience, because now we are getting a lot more than we used to. And I think younger generations could reinterpret that. And I think that's perfectly fine. But I think I'm in that in-between generation that's still like, to get the historic information out there is pretty important to me. I have a question too. Yeah, I can see. So thinking about my creative process, I was super surprised with what the cop did at the end. So when you're sitting here, you're thinking about writing Cleric and Division, did you already know that was what's going to happen?
[ 00:31:57 ]Or is part of your process just trying to get to know? The characters and then make your decision as you write, like how does that work um in terms of the very end I didn't know like what except I didn't know what Rose did, I mean what happened to Rose until maybe two-thirds of the book. I was kind of playing around with different scenarios but one of it doing research um there's a book, a non-fiction book when abortion was a crime. It's kind of an older book, but I just wanted to understand abortion in the 1940s. You know, it's a very prescient. I mean, it's a very relevant topic today. But and most of that book was about Chicago. I really recommend if you're kind of interested in like reproductive history.
[ 00:32:47 ]I really recommend that book because a lot of the she's an academic. A lot of her research was set in Chicago. And there was, and then you could see it in your old papers. I mean, actually what the police officers did, they were blackmailing women who had abortions. And actually one person was killed by a police officer. So it was pretty bad. So I was, that was like, that was. Like, interesting to me, so I and I read that book pretty early on, so then it just planted the idea that the police would have to do something, there would have to be some blackmail involved, but I didn't know quite how that would intersect with Aki's story, and it kind of grew as a result of that. Yeah, would anybody else have a question?
[ 00:33:45 ]I know we probably have time for like one or two more; is anybody else okay? Hi, I just want to say hi. So I just have a question about so I hear this a lot from people who write about really difficult topics or like their communities and the violence that they've suffered. So I'm wondering for you, like, was there a journey for you in which you were really angry for a few years and you couldn't really talk about this topic? And then you were able to kind of grow and now you have a different sort of lens. So do you have, have you had a journey like that? And like, how can you write about these things that were done to the Japanese American community now with such like objectivity?
[ 00:34:26 ]Not that, you know, of course you're still making a point, but you're able to tell those stories now. Yeah. You know, probably I'm kind of more of in a unique situation and some of it might be my own personality too, or my family culture, but because my parents had gone through so much trauma um during world war ii um actually my grandfather he he was obliterated in the bomb and so my mother as an eight-year-old she was in the countryside she was taken to like you know ground zero of hiroshima and they're looking for his boat you know his body you know so and and for me i was the first born of my i was the pretty much the only
[ 00:35:14 ]living person blood relative of my mother in this country for a while that this is very unhealthy so I recommend therapy but so yeah I think I did a personal journey just like because I was the kind of counselor for my mother you know and I think you hear this a lot from maybe immigrant Children, um, especially um, and usually immigrants went through some sort of hardship right to come to this country and then um, it did and it may depend on which birth order you were but I kind of absorbed all her, you know, um, struggles and um, yet um, I think my father kind of saved our family because he has a, he's gone now, but he, he has a sense of humor and just I think both my parents they have a zest for life they're always curious about, you know.
[ 00:36:15 ]My mom's 87 and I gave we gave her an iPhone 12 like you know three years ago and she's like she from the library she borrowed like 'iPhone 12 for Dummies' and she's constantly like, she's removing Like she sent me a photo of herself without the background, she goes 'I you know can you do this? I just learned how to do this, but anyway. She has this zest for which I appreciate and I think for me personally, one lesson like no matter what, I mean yeah. Get the therapy, you know, find help and talk about it, you know that's important. But also, to you know, to hang on to joy, you know, whether it's like running or you know for me, I like to swim, I used to run, I do more swimming now or you know, looking at wildflowers or whatever it is that I guess everyone talks about self-care, but I think the things that bring you joy is really important.
[ 00:37:15 ]But um, I think also from my parents because my parents, my parents are kind of unusual, they, they kind of look at they kind of understand, like this terrible thing happened to them, but they also are cognizant, well, the Japanese government, the military did terrible things in other Asian countries, you know that, they were always open and understanding about kind of this global view, and I really cherish that, that's their attitude. So for me growing up, I don't feel like, oh, this is a constant being defensive. Rather, it's more like we went, my family went through a traumatic experience. But I know people all over the world are going through their own trauma, you know, both big and small, you know. And I think it's not a contest.
[ 00:38:07 ]Like, we went through things, you know, that were way worse than you, you know, rather than looking at things like that. It's like; we went through pain, and you're going through pain. So, I want to be empathetic, you know, and I, I wish we would get to a place where we could, you know, it's not a competition, you know, it's the fact that you went through great pain; it's not helping me, you know, but if I could somehow build understanding towards what you're going through, that, that could strengthen, you know, our country and world. If, you know, if I'm if i'm trying to paint things in a really large way but um yeah so I think the value of books and like books like yours like just you know we're talking about like that empathy engine and that ability to understand not like to compare our stories like one is worse or better but that like right like Somebody may have, you know, painful stuff in their background.
[ 00:39:08 ]I'm reading a story about like a different group of people and also this other painful experience that I can imagine. What if that were me? I just think it like does really move to help shape this world that you're describing of like. Hopefully, right, you know, more people, you know, more people reading more books like does make the world a better place, I think, for this reason. For sure. For sure. And that's the beauty. Let's bring it back to books. Yeah. And we could travel. We don't have to get on a plane, you know, and we can't go back in time, but we can. How we understand it's like the tool. It's, you know, one of the main tools that we have to, to do this. Because like, we can't go back in time.
[ 00:39:51 ]We can't like live another life. That's, you know, like, you know, like become a different person or whatever, but we can like understand these stories. When we have access to them by awesome writers, yeah so many of us that read this like had no idea of this, this whole story and like I may have told you when we first emailed, like I'm from California, so I've heard about Japanese Americans being removed from California, but it never occurred to me, like then what, like where do you think you know and so yeah, and then just like I didn't know if it was just because I wasn't a native Chicagoan that I didn't know this, and then I like no, that's not the case, well that's where the you know authorities say 'do not bunch up' and there was it was very discouraged to have anything visible that reflects your culture.
[ 00:40:42 ]Yeah, what are you laughing at? Just trying to exit through the door and there's something that's You know what? Before we go, I see that Ross is with us. Maybe Ross, you want to say, I mean, not to put you on the spot, but would you like to share anything? Yeah. Hi, Ross. Oh my gosh. Hi, Ross. I didn't even know he was there. It looks like he's unmuted. Ross, are you talking to us? If you are, we can't hear you. Maybe he just put it on and went into the other room, what do I yeah but thank yeah I'm glad that you know and and I'll I'll end my my part with this I think it's what makes me happy is um when people like in Chicago are connecting with each other you know so it made me really happy that you're able to meet Mary do I mean these are people in your own backyard you know that you probably would have never met right
[ 00:41:47 ]And and so those kinds of connections make me very happy. Us too. Okay. Well, Ross, if you can hear us and you want to interrupt at any time, please do, but otherwise we'll wrap up and do a group picture with Naomi. So, okay. Yeah. How about we all turn this around and I'll crowd around? So you'll see me, but you won't see them. But yeah, you are in the group. So I'll tell you when to smile. Yeah, move any of that. I'm going to get my Clark and division. Oh, yeah, right here, okay, if I could have everyone come a little closer, really good. This is beautiful. One, two, three, I'll do a couple more, one, two, three, and then one more, okay, one, two, three, gorgeous. Thank you. Oh, wait, actually, can I have you wave? Thank you. Okay, and then
[ 00:43:12 ] well, Naomi, thank you so much for joining us. You know, Emily and I can reach out. Oh, I want to make sure, because speaking of like what we can do with you is Evergreen. Can you tell us a bit about the book that's coming out, and its connection before we part ways? So the Aki story continues, and this will be the last Aki book, but it's called Evergreen. And it, this is a big hint. Um, is set in 1946, uh, Los Angeles, so... But there's a lot of the same characters that kind of go through some of the characters are still in Chicago and visit LA, so there's still a Chicago connection there for sure. Well, Naomi I'm moving to San Diego in a couple of months so maybe you and I could maybe, I'll come up to LA and you can walk around the LA parts of it. Oh yeah, I'm gonna do walking tours, yeah! Chicago's gonna miss you but it's gonna be our game. Yeah, we'll talk more, we'll talk more. Thank you so much for coming and for answering all of our questions. And we hope you have a great rest of your day. Thank you. Bye-bye.